Indian Archives - Law Abiding Biker Podcast

LAB-285-Indian vs. Harley-Davidson! Are We Switching?

November 12, 2021 By Ryan Urlacher 1 Comment

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We compare an Indian Challenger to a Harley Road Glide in this podcast episode and tell you what you need to know if you are considering purchasing either. We were fortunate to have this Indian Challenger for a few weeks and filmed a complete 12″ handlebar and heated grips install on it.

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I ride a 2018 police Harley Electra Glide with the Milwaukee-Eight 107 ci air-cooled V-Twin engine for my day job so I can loosely compare it to the new Powerplus 108 ci liquid-cooled engine coming in the Indian Challenger. I also ride my Harley Street Glide Special with the 103 ci engine off-duty many thousands of miles a year along with other bikes. I am also a police motorcycle instructor and I hope all of this qualifies me to review and compare the Indian to the Harley-Davidson.

See My “Indian vs. Harley-Davidson! Am I Switching?” Video!

I used the base model of the Indian Challenger for this review. Now, this base model is identical to the Indian Challenger “Limited” and the Dark Horse, the black limited model, except for they cost $5,000 more.

But, those more premium models are also coming with a few extra things and those are:

Baked in GPS Navigation in the Ride Command Infotainment System
Remotely locking saddlebags
TPMS-Tire Pressure Management System
Indian “Smart Lean Technology”

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Smart Lean Technology is Indian's version of Harley's RDRS or Reflex Defensive Rider System. Basically, both these systems adjust traction control and ABS systems based on lean angle making riding safer. Now, that's a very dumbed-down version of what these systems do. If you want to learn all about RDRS and whether you should spend the money on it, check my RDRS video out.

For a Complete Breakdown & Differences Between The Harley Road Glide and Indian Challenger See My Article Here!

The Indian is a badass bike and I think you'd be totally satisfied if you purchased it. The same thing goes for the Harley Road Glide. Much of it will come down to rider preference. If money were not an issue, I'd own one of each.

You'll need to listen to this podcast episode to hear all the finer details and our opinions!

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LAB-281-Installing Taller Aftermarket Handlebars on an Indian Challenger Project

October 5, 2021 By Ryan Urlacher 1 Comment

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We spent the entire day installing 12″ aftermarket handlebars on a 2020 Indian Challenger. The stock handlebars on these bikes are not comfortable for many riders and many just don't like the look of them. In this episode, we break down what you need to know if you're considering this handlebar install project on your Indian motorcycle.

We wanted to film the entire install and make another awesome tutorial video for the biker community to save money and not have to take their Indian motorcycle to a dealership to do this. Our Indian Handlebar Install Video will eventually release, so keep checking back. If you have a Harley, then check out one of our awesome Harley Handlebar Install Tutorial Videos!

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It is worth noting that Indian seems to leave enough wires, brake line, and throttle cable to install up to 14″ aftermarket bars without having to extend those. If you go any taller than 14″ then you'll need to extend those for sure. When released, our video will even show you that process.

As we dug deeper into the Indian, we liked some of the engineering things they do but also like some things Harley does better. We learned so many things during this project that we share with you in this episode. Your Indian motorcycle may throw some diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) when doing this project and that's normal. We'll show you how to clear those codes within the Indian Ride Command infotainment system.

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Our video will be very detailed and you'll be able to do this project right in your own shop or garage with standard tools.

To get a ton of information, you'll need to listen to this podcast episode.

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Harley-Davidson vs. Indian Motorcycles-Review of the Indian Challenger

April 8, 2021 By Ryan Urlacher 9 Comments

I compare an Indian Challenger to a Harley Road Glide in this video and tell you what you need to know if you are considering purchasing either. We were fortunate to have this Indian Challenger for a few weeks and filmed a complete 12″ handlebar and heated grips install on it. A detailed tutorial video will release eventually, so you can save money and do this project yourself. The stock handlebars are not comfortable for many and will need to be changed out. Or maybe you just want to add some unique style to this bike. (see review video below)

Check out our Harley Handlebar Install Tutorial Videos if you want to save money and change out the bars on your Harley in your own shop or garage! You can definitely do it with standard tools and we've helped a ton of bikers do this for many years now!

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I used the base model Indian Challenger for this review. Now, this base model is identical to the Indian Challenger “Limited” and the Dark Horse, the black limited model, except for they cost $5,000 more.

But, those more premium models are also coming with a few extra things and those are:

Baked in GPS Navigation in the Ride Command Infotainment System
Remotely locking saddlebags
TPMS-Tire Pressure Management System
Indian “Smart Lean Technology”

A couple of other things worth noting on these rider safety systems are:

You can't get the Indian Smart Lean Technology as a paid option on the base Indian Challenger model. So, you have to get the Challenger Limited or Dark Horse to get the Smart Lean Technology.
- However, you can add Harley's RDRS to either the Road Glide or RG Special for $1,000.
Both Indian models do come standard with 3 ride modes, which the Harley does not
- Rain, Standard, and Sport modes

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The Harley Road Glide base model has a base price of $21,700 in comparison to the Indian, which is $23,000. So a Harley costs $1,300less. And for $1,000 you can add the Harley RDRS, which still makes it $300 less than the Indian. You don't have the option with the Indian Challenger base model.

The Harley base model Road Glide comes with a 107 ci air-cooled M8 motor. If you get a Road Glide Special, you bump to the M8 114 ci and that bike will cost you $26,700. You can add that RDRS for $1,000, making the total $27,700. The Indian Limited costs $300 more, coming in at $28,000. The base model Indian Challenger and Limited both come with the power plus 108 ci water-cooled engine. So, there is no engine bump for moving to a limited.

The base model Road Glide comes with a 4.3 non-touch screen Boom Box infotainment system, while the Special model comes

standard with the larger Boom Box GTS touch screen system while both models of the Indian come with the 7″ Ride Command touch screen infotainment system.

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We did a video on our YouTube channel showing you how to upgrade your Harley 4.3 Boom Box or to upgrade your older Boom Box, but it will cost you about $1,500 if you do it yourself.

Engines and “general” specs:

Harley Road Glide Base Model:

Milwaukee-Eight® 107 ci V-Twin engine
Air cooled
85 -90 Horsepower
111 ft lbs of torque

Harley Road Glide Special:

Milwaukee-Eight® 114 ci V-Twin engine
Air cooled
100 horsepower
118 ft lbs of torque

Indian Challenger Base Model & Limited:

108 ci V-Twin engine
Liquid cooled
122 HP
128 ft lbs torque

Yes, the Indian 108 ci motor has more power and it can certainly be felt when rolling the throttle. I know so many riders love hearing “more power”, but let's be realistic here. The Indian's and Harley's in this category are for “touring” and long-distance riding. Both bikes have sufficient power to carry all your gear, passenger, and have plenty of passing power for getting around traffic. If you want only power and speed, then you should not be buying a touring bike in the first place. Go get a sports bike.

Suspension:

Yes, the stock Indian front (inverted forks) and rear suspension feel better than the Harley stock suspension but it's not a mind-blowing difference at all in my opinion. I've toured so many thousands of miles on my 2014 Harley Street Glide with stock suspension and had no issues. Many do upgrade their Harley suspension though and that's rider preference.

Brakes:

The brakes feel good on Indian Challenger during emergency drills. It was really hard for me to tell any difference between the Harley and Indian except that the Indian Anti Lock Brakes kick in with very little brake pressure. Almost too soon in my opinion.

Traction Control:

The traction control on the Indian is a nice feature for many riders. However, I would not rely on it. During my tests spinning out in gravel, it takes a while before it catches up and understands the rear wheel is spinning. Then it backs off power to the rear wheel. But, it'd likely be too late in an actual situation. It's worth noting that I only tested the traction control while in sport mode.

Common Items:

The Harley Road Glide weighs about 850 lbs while the Indian Challenger comes in about 20 lbs lighter at around 830 lbs. Both bikes have 6 gallon tanks but the Harley is getting better gas mileage at 45 mph while the Indian is getting around 40 mpg. Both bikes have adequate storage space in the saddlebags.

Infotainment Systems:

Both the Harley Boom Box and Indian Ride Command systems have plenty to offer. I will say that for a new user, the Ride Command's user interface seems a bit easier to learn. You should know that the Indian Challenger base model does not come with GPS navigation and it just put up a screen to call the dealership when I tried to use it. The Indian Challenger Limite does come with GPS navigation but after two years they want to charge you a monthly fee to keep certain features. Harley does not do this and I appreciate that.

The Indian does have a toggle on the left controls but it only does certain things on the Ride Command. For many things, you have to remove your hands from the bars and actually use the touch screen. In comparison, the Harley has toggles on the left and right controls and you can 100% control everything on the Boom Box without removing your hands and this is a big win for Harley.

Don't let anyone tell you that the Indian Ride Command is superior to the Harley Boom Box. In my short time using the Ride Command I found some glitches, which the Harley Boom Box also has. It's expected, as these are computer systems and they try to work out the bugs through software updates.

The Harley Boom Box is very capable and integrates their free Ride Planner online trip-planning software. Check out our very popular Harley Boom Box tutorial video series to get up and running quickly with the system and to learn all the tips and tricks, so you can get the most out of it. We'll help flatten the learning curve so you can spend less time learning and more time riding!

Windshield:

The Indian does come with an electronically adjustable height windshield. Now, I had one of these in the past motorcycle and I honestly never used it. I wear a modular helmet and just pop it up if I want some extra air. I just buy a windshield that properly directs the air over my head and I'm good to go. Now, some may use this feature. I will say that because of the electronic windshield on the Indian you are going to be very limited with aftermarket windshield options. So, although it seems great, I am not a big fan of that feature. With a Harley, the aftermarket windshield options are endless. You can really get any look and performance you want.

Then Indian Limited and Dark Horse do come with remote locking saddlebags and that's a big win for the Indian. Harley does not have this and definitely should here in 2021.

Throttle Response:

I did that when snapping the throttle the Indian has much more of a lag and the Harley and I noticed it right away. I will say that this Indian was completely stock and had not air, exhaust or EFI tune, so maybe that would change.

Final Thoughts:

But, for now I'll stick to Harley and one of the main reasons is that there are a ton of aftermarket parts and you can more easily customize it. That's part of the sport and lifestyle, customizing your ride. Indian lacks diversity and support for aftermarket parts.

Also, the Indian has its air cleaner hidden under the fuel tank so the engine side cover is just for looks and not an actual air cleaner. This is going to limit you greatly on a great looking air intake system.

Additionally, Harley has a much larger dealer network and support when traveling cross-country, which is very important.

Further, I don't like how Indian uses plastic to cover all the mechanical components, much like a sports bike. Harley leaves these areas open and I really like seeing those mechanical components on the Harley and it allows further customization options. And at this point, I don't like the large radiator on the frot of the bike for the water cooled engine. I know it's necessary for water cooled but that's a big reason I still like air cooled motorcycles. That big radiator is just not a great look in my opinion.

Ride Safe!

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Indian Motorcycle Stage One Mufflers vs. Freedom Performance Exhaust-Sound Comparison

June 7, 2020 By Ryan Urlacher 2 Comments

Indian Aftermarket Exhaust Sound Comparison:

In this video, you'll hear a sound comparison between the Indian stage one slip-on mufflers and aftermarket Freedom Performance headers and slip-on mufflers. By installing an Indian aftermarket exhaust system, you'll reduce heat because you're getting rid of the cats. And, you'll get much better sound. We also installed a Dynojet Power Commander V EFI tuner to remap the electronic fuel injection as this will need to be done when changing exhaust or air intakes.

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True dual head pipes with no crossover or a catalytic converter for a cooler running bike. Compatible with all Freedom Performance slip-on mufflers for Indian models and most other aftermarket slip-on mufflers. You can get them in chrome or black.

Features:

- 1 3/4″ headers and 220° full-coverage 2 1/2″ heat shields
- O2 ports and plugs
- Reduces heat
- Mounting hardware included
- Made in the USA

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Awesome Stuff We Have on Our Indian Touring! All Metrics Motorcycles!

July 14, 2019 By Ryan Urlacher Leave a Comment

We walk you around our Indian Chieftain Limited and show you some of the awesome products you should consider getting for your ride. Don’t get stranded on your Harley, Indian, or another metric motorcycle over a small repair. Have the emergency tools and tire repair kits you need in your saddlebag so you can get back on the road quickly. Why call an expensive tow truck when you can fix it yourself.

We also show you the best quality cup holder for your Indian or Harley from

Harley & Indian Motorcycle Cup Holder-All Metric

Ciro 3D. You can choose chrome or black. There are a standard version and a “Big Ass” version for those bigger mugs and bottles. There are a perch mount and a universal round bar option for the Ciro 3D cup holders.

And of course, the Biker Gripper cell phone mount, the best in the world, will mount to your Indian or another metric motorcycle!

Harley, Indian, Metric motorcycle emergency tire repair kit

These products have been tried and tested by the Law Abiding Biker crew and that's why they made it into our exclusive online store!

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Video-How to Remove the Gas Tank on an Indian Motorcycle Touring

May 16, 2019 By Ryan Urlacher Leave a Comment

How to Remove an Indian Gas Tank:

In this video, we show you how to remove the fuel or gas tank on your 2014 to present Indian touring model. That includes the Chief, Chieftain, Springfield, and Roadmaster. We also show you how to re-install the gas tank. We show you tips and tricks to make this project easy.

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LAB-206-Harley-Davidson Touring vs Indian Touring | The Winner is?

May 9, 2019 By Ryan Urlacher Leave a Comment

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In this podcast episode, we are comparing a Harley-Davidson touring model such as the Street Glide Special to the Indian Chieftain Limited. Harley vs. Indian is the topic. Is one better than the other? Which is better for touring cross-country? Which has more power? What about aftermarket upgrades? Which is more comfortable? These are just a few of the topics we discuss and you'll want to listen in to hear us really break things down. This was a fun Patron Member only live video broadcast event with live chat! Our beloved members got to be involved and both heard and watched this episode months before everyone else. Get signed up as an exclusive Patron Member now and get benefits!

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Big Daddy Kane was on one of the mics and for a good reason. He currently owns a newer model Harley Road Glide special and an Indian Chieftain Limited. In the past, he has also owned a Victory touring model. He is very qualified for this discussion of Harley vs Indian. He speaks of the differences he finds between each and he does a great job giving you the pros and cons of each bike. These are things you'll want to know if you're on the fence of whether to purchase a Harley touring or Indian touring model.

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Harley vs Indian: Below are some of the high points we discussed

INDIAN CHIEFTAIN CLASSIC BASE PRICE: $26,749
HARLEY STREET GLIDE SPECIAL BASE PRICE: $27,089
- DIFFERENCE OF $340
INDIAN HAS THE THUNDERSTOKE 111 CI MOTOR
- 1811cc
- INDIAN HASN'T UPGRADED THAT 111 MOTOR FOR MANY YEARS NOW
  - UNVEILED BACK IN 2013
  - NOTHING SINCE THEN
HARLEY HAS THE MILWAUKEE-EIGHT 107 AND 114 CI MOTORS
- 2019 HD STREET GLIDE AND ROAD GLIDE SPECIALS COMING WITH 114 CI MOTOR STOCK
  - 1868 cc

Harley pros:
- For a tall rider, the Harley Road Glide special is very comfortable. The Street Glide is tighter for tall guys, but both excellent riding positions.
- Lots of accessory options with Harley. Way more than Indian!
- More saddlebag space in Harley
- Milwaukee-eight 107″ ci motor has great power. Harley 107 ci motor has a touch more acceleration than the Indian Thunderstroke 111 with air, exhaust, and EFI tuner upgrades on both. So, the Milwaukee-eight 114″ motor will definitely have more power.
- Accessories from manufacturer cost a bit less for Harley compared to Indian.
- More dealers nationwide f0r Harley-Davidson
- Harley has a long history with the brand and bikes
- Harley touring models have a larger fuel tank for riding cross-country
- Many aftermarket HD accessories work and fit well. Beware of some aftermarket parts for Indian.
Harley Cons:
- With the Harley Boom!™ Box Infotainment System you have to add an expensive Wireless Headset Interface Module (WHIM) in order to have Bluetooth headset paring. And you have to buy a Harley stamped Sena Bluetooth headset in order to get full functionality and stereo sound.
  - The Indian Ride Command® system is ready to pair with any major brand Bluetooth headset and you get full functionality. You don't have to add anything on.
- Some Harley Dealerships are treating their customers very poorly by stating they'll void warranties if a customer adds an aftermarket air intake or mufflers. This is ridiculous & Harley-Davidson dealerships doing this should be ashamed. They are trying to force customers to buy only Harley stamped products and pay mechanics to install simple things.
- Service at Harley dealerships-You want to trust they know everything but the fact is that many dealers are not up to speed and properly trained on the emerging technology such as the Boom!™ Box Infotainment System.

Indian pros:
- Quality bike. Nice touches. Offering traditional styling and new limited editions.
- Technology-Ride Command infotainment system works great! Bluetooth built in. Just pair a Bluetooth headset. GPS updates are free for the first 3 years! Indian uses Navi Extras for the GPS maps.
  - Harley uses Navi Extras for the GPS maps but you must pay $150 to $200 to upgrade your GPS maps in the Boom Box Infotainment System
- Charger in the saddlebag for electronics comes stock on the Indian
- Paint is fantastic-Love the color matched inner fairing & front fairing
- Thunder stoke 111 ci motor has lots of torque. Milwaukee-eight 107 is better in higher gears. Both bikes with similar aftermarket upgrades
- Smooth/quieter transmission shifts than on the Harley. Not clunky.
- Easier oil changes on Indian. One hole.
- Electronic saddlebag lock & unlock electronically. A nice feature that's not available on Harley.
Indian Cons:
- Indian is owned by Polaris, who make a ton of other things. Are they really focusing on the Indian or on their many other products?
  - Harley is primarily focused on producing motorcycles
- Small saddlebag compared to Harley. The design is an illusion and looks very big from the outside, but inside it's significantly less space
- Indian has a smaller gas tank. Harley has a 6-gallon gas tank. Indian has only a 5.5-gallon and you should you pack an extra gallon of fuel if riding cross-country with Harley touring riders?
- Fairing feels more in the face compared to Harley Road Glide. Similar to a Harley Street Glide feel. Taller riders on the Indian will need to adjust at first but you can get used to it.
- Much more limited options on aftermarket products for Indian
  - Expensive parts compared to Harley
- A much smaller network of Indian dealerships.